Sukkah on a Louvre Pergola
Qu. I have a metal pergola with a louvered roof. Can I use this to build my Sukkah and what concerns should I be aware of?
The Mishna[1] rules that one who makes a Sukkah underneath a tree, it is as though they had made their Sukkah in a house and it is Posul.
The Gemara discusses under what circumstances the tree is able to invalidate a Sukkah and there are different approaches in the Rishonim how to interpret the conclusion of the Gemara.
According to Rashi, if the Sukkah itself has enough Schach so that it has more shade than sunlight, the Sukkah is Kosher, as long as the tree branches are not thick and allow more sun than shade to pass through. This is also the opinion of Tosfos[2] and Rosh[3].
According the Raviya (Avi Haezri)[4], even if the Sukkah itself has more shade than sun, the branches of the tree (even if they are sparse), cancel out the Schach that is directly below them. The rationale is that since the Shade in that area would be coming from the tree anyway, the Schach of the Sukkah in that area is irrelevant and therefore it is treated as though it was not there. This is also the view of the Ra”n[5].
The practical difference would be where the Sukkah had more shade than sunlight, but there are enough branches over the Sukkah that if the area below them was disregarded, the Sukkah would no longer have more Shade than sun. According to Rashi the Sukkah would still be Kosher. According to the Raviya the Sukkah would be Posul.
The Shulchan Aruch[6] brings both of the opinions as Yesh Omrim (there are those who say), without clearly ruling like either one. Biur Halacha[7] writes that according to the general rule (Klal), when the Mechaber quotes two opinions as Yesh Omrim, the Shulchan Aruch’s ruling is like the second opinion. In this case it is the stricter opinion of the Raviya.
The Alter Rebbe presents both opinions and concludes[8] that the primary opinion is that of the Raviya. Nonetheless, in a Shaas Hadechak (pressing situation), such as where no other Sukkah is available, one can rely on the opinion of Rashi and deem such a Sukkah Kosher.
Based on the stricter opinion[9], the Tur brings a discussion about building a Sukkah underneath a roof, once the tiles have been removed. The case discussed is where the tiles sit on a wooden lattice structure (cross beams), which remains above the Sukkah even after the tiles are removed.
Rabbeinu Yechiel and other Rishonim[10] consider these cross beams or lattice to be Schach Posul, just like the branches of the tree. Therefore, they would invalidate any Schach directly beneath them and could potentially invalidate the Sukkah. The Tur notes that if the Sukkah has a full covering of Schach with no gaps of sunlight, it is unlikely that the lattice would be enough to invalidate the Sukkah.
The Baal Haitur[11] writes that even according to the stricter opinion of Raviya, there is no concern because in this case, the wooden beams have become Kosher Schach themselves. Not only do these beams no longer affect the Schach beneath them, one may even sit underneath them[12].
The Acharonim explain his rationale; the wooden beams are technically Kosher Schach material. They are only invalid because they were not placed on the roof for the purpose of Schach. Removing the tiles for the sake of the Sukkah is considered as doing an ‘action’ in the beams to designate them for the purpose of Sukkah.
The Shulchan Aruch rules like the Baal Haitur, writing that one who builds a Sukkah underneath a roof where the tiles have been removed (for the purpose of Sukkah), the Sukkah is Kosher even though the wooden support beams remain in place.
This is also the ruling of the Acharonim, including the Magen Avraham[13], the Alter Rebbe[14] and the Mishna Berura[15].
But all of the above applies when the roof had tiles that were removed for the purpose of Sukkah. If there were no tiles and the roof was built only with wooden beams (e.g. a pergola), no action has been performed to render these beams as Kosher Schach and they remain Posul and can invalidate the Schach of a Sukkah that is built beneath them[16].
Even this only applies when the Sukkah is built beneath the roof. If the Schach is placed above the lattice, the pergola lattice does not affect the Schach.
In all of the above, the Bach brings an additional stringency. If the beams are less than 3 Tefachim (Approx. 24cam) apart, we apply the principal of Lavud and see the beams as being joined together as one wide beam. A beam that is wider than 4 Tefachim (32cm) is Rabbinically invalid because of Gezeiras Tikra – it resembles a roof.
The Mishna Berura[17] writes that in order to be Yotzai according to all opinions (referring to the stringency of the Bach), one should ensure that the beams are spaced out more than 3 Tefachim apart[18].
Based on the Bach and Mishna Berura, there are Acharonim[19] who write that one should not build their Sukkah underneath washing lines or electric cables and the like, if the cables or wires are less than 3 Tefachim apart. Since the wires are Schach Posul, if we apply the concept of Lavud, we would treat the entire areas between the wires as being Schach Pasul as well, and it would cancel out the Schach of the Sukkah below[20].
The Alter Rebbe[21] does not bring the Chumra of the Bach when discussing the Sukkah that is built beneath the beams once the roof tiles have been removed. It seems that this would be Kosher even if the beams were within 3 Tefachim of one another.
However, when discussing the case of a Sukkah built beneath a pergola, where the beams are invalid Schach, the Alter Rebbe writes that this is only problematic where the Sukkah is built beneath the Schach. If the Schach is placed above the pergola beams, the Sukkah is Kosher even though the beams are within 3 Tefachim of one another.
He explains that in this case we do not apply the principle of Lavud to view the beams as being joined together because we only apply Lavud when there is an empty gap between the beams. When the Schach is placed in between or directly on top of the beams, it prevents the beam being ‘joined’[22].
This implies that the Alter Rebbe does indeed agree in principal with the stringency of the Bach[23].
In the case of a louvered metal Pergola roof: The metal roof is Schach Pasul. Additionally, even when open, the louvres are within 3 Tefachim of one another. One should not place the Schach or build the Sukkah below the louvres as this will create a problem akin to the Sukkah under a tree.
If the Schach is placed directly above or in between the louvres (provided that there will be more shade than sun), according to the ruling of the Alter Rebbe, we do not apply the principal of Lavud and do not treat the louvres as being joined.
It is not clear whether this only works where the Schach is sitting directly on top of the pergola beams or louvres, or whether the Schach can be slightly elevated. There is grounds to say that if the Schach is within 3 Tefachim of the beams/louvres, we would apply the concept of Lavud and see it as being directly on top.
There is an additional concern when placing the Schach on top of the louvres and that is the issue of Maamid – that the Schach should not be supported by something which itself is Posul as Schach. Therefore, one should first put wooden beams across the louvres to support the Schach.
[1] Sukkah 9b
[2] Sukkah 9b ד"ה הא
[3] Siman 14
[4] Siman 613 Quoting Riv”a
[5] 4b ד"ה וגרסינן
[6] OC 626:1
[7] ד"ה וי"א
[8] OC 626:10
[9] According to Rashi, as long as the Sukkah has more shade than sunlight, there would be no issue.
[10] Mordechai quoting Rabbeinu Peretz
[11] Shaar Hasukkah Shaar 4 83
[12] This is derived from the Mishna that beams from a roof that has no ceiling can be made Kosher by doing an action on these beams for the purpose of the Sukkah such as removing the nails from each beam.
[13] OC 626:6
[14] OC 626:12
[15] OC 626:17. Mishna Berura references Acharonim who dispute the view of the Baal Haitur that removing the tiles is a sufficient action to render the wooden beams as Kosher Schach.
[16] Magen Avraham ibid, Shulchan Aruch Harav OC 626:13 and Mishna Berura ibid.
[17] 626:17
[18] According to the Ta”z they should be 4 Tefachim apart
[19] Minchas Yitzchok 8:56
[20] See Piskei Teshuvos 626:8 which brings an alternate understanding.
[21] OC 626:12
[22] See Mishna Berura ibid
[23] It is not clear why the Alter Rebbe does not bring this Chumra earlier
The Mishna[1] rules that one who makes a Sukkah underneath a tree, it is as though they had made their Sukkah in a house and it is Posul.
The Gemara discusses under what circumstances the tree is able to invalidate a Sukkah and there are different approaches in the Rishonim how to interpret the conclusion of the Gemara.
According to Rashi, if the Sukkah itself has enough Schach so that it has more shade than sunlight, the Sukkah is Kosher, as long as the tree branches are not thick and allow more sun than shade to pass through. This is also the opinion of Tosfos[2] and Rosh[3].
According the Raviya (Avi Haezri)[4], even if the Sukkah itself has more shade than sun, the branches of the tree (even if they are sparse), cancel out the Schach that is directly below them. The rationale is that since the Shade in that area would be coming from the tree anyway, the Schach of the Sukkah in that area is irrelevant and therefore it is treated as though it was not there. This is also the view of the Ra”n[5].
The practical difference would be where the Sukkah had more shade than sunlight, but there are enough branches over the Sukkah that if the area below them was disregarded, the Sukkah would no longer have more Shade than sun. According to Rashi the Sukkah would still be Kosher. According to the Raviya the Sukkah would be Posul.
The Shulchan Aruch[6] brings both of the opinions as Yesh Omrim (there are those who say), without clearly ruling like either one. Biur Halacha[7] writes that according to the general rule (Klal), when the Mechaber quotes two opinions as Yesh Omrim, the Shulchan Aruch’s ruling is like the second opinion. In this case it is the stricter opinion of the Raviya.
The Alter Rebbe presents both opinions and concludes[8] that the primary opinion is that of the Raviya. Nonetheless, in a Shaas Hadechak (pressing situation), such as where no other Sukkah is available, one can rely on the opinion of Rashi and deem such a Sukkah Kosher.
Based on the stricter opinion[9], the Tur brings a discussion about building a Sukkah underneath a roof, once the tiles have been removed. The case discussed is where the tiles sit on a wooden lattice structure (cross beams), which remains above the Sukkah even after the tiles are removed.
Rabbeinu Yechiel and other Rishonim[10] consider these cross beams or lattice to be Schach Posul, just like the branches of the tree. Therefore, they would invalidate any Schach directly beneath them and could potentially invalidate the Sukkah. The Tur notes that if the Sukkah has a full covering of Schach with no gaps of sunlight, it is unlikely that the lattice would be enough to invalidate the Sukkah.
The Baal Haitur[11] writes that even according to the stricter opinion of Raviya, there is no concern because in this case, the wooden beams have become Kosher Schach themselves. Not only do these beams no longer affect the Schach beneath them, one may even sit underneath them[12].
The Acharonim explain his rationale; the wooden beams are technically Kosher Schach material. They are only invalid because they were not placed on the roof for the purpose of Schach. Removing the tiles for the sake of the Sukkah is considered as doing an ‘action’ in the beams to designate them for the purpose of Sukkah.
The Shulchan Aruch rules like the Baal Haitur, writing that one who builds a Sukkah underneath a roof where the tiles have been removed (for the purpose of Sukkah), the Sukkah is Kosher even though the wooden support beams remain in place.
This is also the ruling of the Acharonim, including the Magen Avraham[13], the Alter Rebbe[14] and the Mishna Berura[15].
But all of the above applies when the roof had tiles that were removed for the purpose of Sukkah. If there were no tiles and the roof was built only with wooden beams (e.g. a pergola), no action has been performed to render these beams as Kosher Schach and they remain Posul and can invalidate the Schach of a Sukkah that is built beneath them[16].
Even this only applies when the Sukkah is built beneath the roof. If the Schach is placed above the lattice, the pergola lattice does not affect the Schach.
In all of the above, the Bach brings an additional stringency. If the beams are less than 3 Tefachim (Approx. 24cam) apart, we apply the principal of Lavud and see the beams as being joined together as one wide beam. A beam that is wider than 4 Tefachim (32cm) is Rabbinically invalid because of Gezeiras Tikra – it resembles a roof.
The Mishna Berura[17] writes that in order to be Yotzai according to all opinions (referring to the stringency of the Bach), one should ensure that the beams are spaced out more than 3 Tefachim apart[18].
Based on the Bach and Mishna Berura, there are Acharonim[19] who write that one should not build their Sukkah underneath washing lines or electric cables and the like, if the cables or wires are less than 3 Tefachim apart. Since the wires are Schach Posul, if we apply the concept of Lavud, we would treat the entire areas between the wires as being Schach Pasul as well, and it would cancel out the Schach of the Sukkah below[20].
The Alter Rebbe[21] does not bring the Chumra of the Bach when discussing the Sukkah that is built beneath the beams once the roof tiles have been removed. It seems that this would be Kosher even if the beams were within 3 Tefachim of one another.
However, when discussing the case of a Sukkah built beneath a pergola, where the beams are invalid Schach, the Alter Rebbe writes that this is only problematic where the Sukkah is built beneath the Schach. If the Schach is placed above the pergola beams, the Sukkah is Kosher even though the beams are within 3 Tefachim of one another.
He explains that in this case we do not apply the principle of Lavud to view the beams as being joined together because we only apply Lavud when there is an empty gap between the beams. When the Schach is placed in between or directly on top of the beams, it prevents the beam being ‘joined’[22].
This implies that the Alter Rebbe does indeed agree in principal with the stringency of the Bach[23].
In the case of a louvered metal Pergola roof: The metal roof is Schach Pasul. Additionally, even when open, the louvres are within 3 Tefachim of one another. One should not place the Schach or build the Sukkah below the louvres as this will create a problem akin to the Sukkah under a tree.
If the Schach is placed directly above or in between the louvres (provided that there will be more shade than sun), according to the ruling of the Alter Rebbe, we do not apply the principal of Lavud and do not treat the louvres as being joined.
It is not clear whether this only works where the Schach is sitting directly on top of the pergola beams or louvres, or whether the Schach can be slightly elevated. There is grounds to say that if the Schach is within 3 Tefachim of the beams/louvres, we would apply the concept of Lavud and see it as being directly on top.
There is an additional concern when placing the Schach on top of the louvres and that is the issue of Maamid – that the Schach should not be supported by something which itself is Posul as Schach. Therefore, one should first put wooden beams across the louvres to support the Schach.
[1] Sukkah 9b
[2] Sukkah 9b ד"ה הא
[3] Siman 14
[4] Siman 613 Quoting Riv”a
[5] 4b ד"ה וגרסינן
[6] OC 626:1
[7] ד"ה וי"א
[8] OC 626:10
[9] According to Rashi, as long as the Sukkah has more shade than sunlight, there would be no issue.
[10] Mordechai quoting Rabbeinu Peretz
[11] Shaar Hasukkah Shaar 4 83
[12] This is derived from the Mishna that beams from a roof that has no ceiling can be made Kosher by doing an action on these beams for the purpose of the Sukkah such as removing the nails from each beam.
[13] OC 626:6
[14] OC 626:12
[15] OC 626:17. Mishna Berura references Acharonim who dispute the view of the Baal Haitur that removing the tiles is a sufficient action to render the wooden beams as Kosher Schach.
[16] Magen Avraham ibid, Shulchan Aruch Harav OC 626:13 and Mishna Berura ibid.
[17] 626:17
[18] According to the Ta”z they should be 4 Tefachim apart
[19] Minchas Yitzchok 8:56
[20] See Piskei Teshuvos 626:8 which brings an alternate understanding.
[21] OC 626:12
[22] See Mishna Berura ibid
[23] It is not clear why the Alter Rebbe does not bring this Chumra earlier