I Skipped Tachanun by Mistake
At Mincha this past week, the Chazzan forgot to say Tachanun and went straight into the Kaddish Tiskabel. Halfway through the Kaddish, the Chazzan remembered that Tachanun should have been said. He was directed to complete the Kaddish. A question then ensued as to whether the Minyan should recite Tachanun after the Kaddish or not. In the end Tachanun was not recited.
The directive to complete the Kaddish is straight forward. Once the Chazzan has begun Kaddish, they may not stop. Even in this case where the Chazzan forgot to say Tachanun, he should not stop in the middle of Kaddish if he has already said the words 'דאמירן בעלמא כו.
In Shacharis, after Tachanun, half Kaddish is recited, followed by Ashrei and Uva Letzion (or Krias Hatorah on a day where there is leining. The half Kaddish is to separate between the verses of Tachanun and the verses of Ashrei[1]. The Kaddish Tiskabel in which we ask Hashem to accept our prayers, is recited after Uva Letzion. It goes on both the Shemoneh Esrei and the Seder Kedusha of Uva Letzion.
In Mincha, where there is no Uva Letzion after the Shemoneh Esrei, the Kaddish Tiskabel is said immediately after Tachanun.
Tachanun is recited immediately after Shemoneh Esrei[2]. When Davening alone this means immediately at the conclusion of their Shemoneh Esrei. When Davening with a Minyan, it means immediately after the Chazzan’s repetition. The supplications after Davening are considered like a continuation of the Shemoneh Esrei[3].
One should not interrupt in between Shemoneh Esrei and Kaddish. If one does interrupt, the supplications of Tachanun are less accepted on High[4]. Based on this, one is not allowed to speak between the Shemoneh Esrei and Tachanun[5]. The Alter Rebbe writes that since Tachanun itself is only Reshus[6], there is technically no prohibition to interrupt. However, one should still not interrupt.
The Rashba brings proof for this from the Gemara[7] which relates how Ima Shalom, the wife of Rabbi Eliezer would prevent her husband from saying Tachanun so that in his supplications he would not pray that her brother Rabban Gamliel be punished from Heaven for having mistreated him. Even though he could have said Tachanun later, it would not have been as effective[8].
Another reason for not interrupting between Shemoneh Esrei and the supplications of Tachanun is because the Tachanun is considered like an extension of the Shemoneh Esrei (תפלה אריכתא), like the supplications of Elokai Neztor where one should also not interrupt[9].
Not interrupting in between Shemoneh Esrei and Tachanun is only a requirement Lechatichila[10]. If one did interrupt, they should still say Tachanun.
This only applies to mundane conversation[11] and does not include interruptions that relate to Davening[12], such as answering Kaddish or Borchu[13]. One may also answer Amen[14]. According to some Poskim, even speaking words of Torah or for the purpose of the Mitzvah should be avoided[15].
The Poskim write that a small amount of speech is permissible[16]. The Halacha only refers to engaging in conversation about another matter (דברים אחרים). According to the Zohar and the Arizal, even a small amount of speech should be avoided[17].
The Poskim write that if one did not interrupt with “significant speech about another matter”, Tachanun may even be recited in another location[18]. This implies that if one interrupted with “significant speech”, Tachanun would not be recited in a different location, but if one was still in the place that one Davened, they would still say Tachanun even after a lengthy interruption.
If Kaddish was already said
In our case, where the Chazzan has already recited Kaddish, there are two different approaches in the Poskim as to whether Tachanun is recited after Kaddish.
There is a minority of Poskim who rule that after Kaddish is recited, Tachanun may no longer be said. Perhaps saying Kaddish is different to an interruption of speaking (where Bedieved one would still say Tachanun), since the Kaddish denotes a separation and ending the previous part of Davening.
This would especially be so in Mincha where the Kaddish Tiskabel is recited which is a conclusion of the Shemoneh Esrei.
Support for this position is brought from the Halachos of Tachanun in a Beis Avel.
One who Davens in the house of an Avel (mourner) or a Chosson, does not say Tachanun in Davening. Even after they leave the house and return home, they do not say Tachanun[19]. The reason for this is because the proper place for Tachanun is immediately after the Shemoneh Esrei and “once it has been pushed from its proper place, it is pushed off completely.[20]”
From this law they derive that wherever Tachanun was not recited in its proper point of Davening, it is pushed off completely and no longer said. Some write that one may say Tachanun but without performing Nefilas Apayim.
However, most Poskim rule that Tachanun should be recited after Kaddish. In their views, Kaddish, like other responses in Davening is not considered a Hefsek.
In their view, we cannot compare this to the Halacha of Davening in a Beis Avel. In the case of one who Davens in a Beis Avel, since they were exempt from Tachanun at the point where Tachanun would have been recited, they remain exempt afterwards. In the case where Tachanun was forgotten and the Chazzan said Kaddish, they were obligated at the time to say Tachanun and this obligation never went away[21].
According to this view that Tachanun should still be said, it should be said immediately after the Kaddish. After saying Tachanun, Kaddish is not recited a second time. In Shacharis one would proceed straight into Ashrei and in Mincha one would go straight to Aleinu.
If it was a day of Leining and the Sefer Torah had already been removed before one realised that Tachanun should have been said, Tachanun should be recited after the Leining is completed.
Recorded that one time in 770, the Chazzan forgot to recite Tachanun and Mincha and recited the Kaddish Tiskabel. The Rbbe directed the Minyan to say Tachanun, but not to repeat the Kaddish[22].
What if one only remembered later?
The Poskim only discuss where one realised while they were still in Davening, such as while saying or after saying Kaddish. Seemingly the same would apply if one was still in Davening and perhaps still in Shule after finishing Davening.
If one had left Shule, it would seem that one would not say Tachanun any longer, even according to the stricter opinion. This would especially be so if one had already started a new activity.
Even though reciting Tachanun is only a custom, one should not avoid reciting Tachanun where there is no reason to do so.
[1] Levush 132:1
[2] Talmidei Rashba, Orchos Chaim quoting Geonim. Shulchan Aruch Orach Chaim 131:1, Levush
[3] Like Elokai Netzor
[4] Shulchan Aruch Harav 131:1
[5] Shulchan Aruch Orach Chaim 131:1
[6] A Reshus. Rav Natrunai Gaon quoted in Tur. According to Kabbalah, Tachanun is an obligation
[7] Bava Metzia 59
[8] Quoted in the Beis Yosef and in Ta”z 131:1
[9] Orchos Chaim quoted in Beis Yosef. Levush, Kaf Hachaim 131:1.
[10] Elya Rabba 131:1. Olas Tamid
[11] Kitzur Shulchan Aruch 22:1
[12] Elya Rabba 131:1
[13] Shaarei Teshuva,
[14] Kaf Hachaim 131:2
[15] This is different to interruptions that are for Davening itself
[16] Magen Avraham 131:1
[17] Kaf Hachaim 131:4
[18] Magen Avraham 131:1. See Rambam 5:14
[19] Ta”z 131:10
[20] Shulchan Aruch Harav 131:5
[21] See Teshuvos Lehoros Nasan
[22] The Rebbe said that if the Chazzan wanted to, a half Kaddish could be said.
The directive to complete the Kaddish is straight forward. Once the Chazzan has begun Kaddish, they may not stop. Even in this case where the Chazzan forgot to say Tachanun, he should not stop in the middle of Kaddish if he has already said the words 'דאמירן בעלמא כו.
In Shacharis, after Tachanun, half Kaddish is recited, followed by Ashrei and Uva Letzion (or Krias Hatorah on a day where there is leining. The half Kaddish is to separate between the verses of Tachanun and the verses of Ashrei[1]. The Kaddish Tiskabel in which we ask Hashem to accept our prayers, is recited after Uva Letzion. It goes on both the Shemoneh Esrei and the Seder Kedusha of Uva Letzion.
In Mincha, where there is no Uva Letzion after the Shemoneh Esrei, the Kaddish Tiskabel is said immediately after Tachanun.
Tachanun is recited immediately after Shemoneh Esrei[2]. When Davening alone this means immediately at the conclusion of their Shemoneh Esrei. When Davening with a Minyan, it means immediately after the Chazzan’s repetition. The supplications after Davening are considered like a continuation of the Shemoneh Esrei[3].
One should not interrupt in between Shemoneh Esrei and Kaddish. If one does interrupt, the supplications of Tachanun are less accepted on High[4]. Based on this, one is not allowed to speak between the Shemoneh Esrei and Tachanun[5]. The Alter Rebbe writes that since Tachanun itself is only Reshus[6], there is technically no prohibition to interrupt. However, one should still not interrupt.
The Rashba brings proof for this from the Gemara[7] which relates how Ima Shalom, the wife of Rabbi Eliezer would prevent her husband from saying Tachanun so that in his supplications he would not pray that her brother Rabban Gamliel be punished from Heaven for having mistreated him. Even though he could have said Tachanun later, it would not have been as effective[8].
Another reason for not interrupting between Shemoneh Esrei and the supplications of Tachanun is because the Tachanun is considered like an extension of the Shemoneh Esrei (תפלה אריכתא), like the supplications of Elokai Neztor where one should also not interrupt[9].
Not interrupting in between Shemoneh Esrei and Tachanun is only a requirement Lechatichila[10]. If one did interrupt, they should still say Tachanun.
This only applies to mundane conversation[11] and does not include interruptions that relate to Davening[12], such as answering Kaddish or Borchu[13]. One may also answer Amen[14]. According to some Poskim, even speaking words of Torah or for the purpose of the Mitzvah should be avoided[15].
The Poskim write that a small amount of speech is permissible[16]. The Halacha only refers to engaging in conversation about another matter (דברים אחרים). According to the Zohar and the Arizal, even a small amount of speech should be avoided[17].
The Poskim write that if one did not interrupt with “significant speech about another matter”, Tachanun may even be recited in another location[18]. This implies that if one interrupted with “significant speech”, Tachanun would not be recited in a different location, but if one was still in the place that one Davened, they would still say Tachanun even after a lengthy interruption.
If Kaddish was already said
In our case, where the Chazzan has already recited Kaddish, there are two different approaches in the Poskim as to whether Tachanun is recited after Kaddish.
There is a minority of Poskim who rule that after Kaddish is recited, Tachanun may no longer be said. Perhaps saying Kaddish is different to an interruption of speaking (where Bedieved one would still say Tachanun), since the Kaddish denotes a separation and ending the previous part of Davening.
This would especially be so in Mincha where the Kaddish Tiskabel is recited which is a conclusion of the Shemoneh Esrei.
Support for this position is brought from the Halachos of Tachanun in a Beis Avel.
One who Davens in the house of an Avel (mourner) or a Chosson, does not say Tachanun in Davening. Even after they leave the house and return home, they do not say Tachanun[19]. The reason for this is because the proper place for Tachanun is immediately after the Shemoneh Esrei and “once it has been pushed from its proper place, it is pushed off completely.[20]”
From this law they derive that wherever Tachanun was not recited in its proper point of Davening, it is pushed off completely and no longer said. Some write that one may say Tachanun but without performing Nefilas Apayim.
However, most Poskim rule that Tachanun should be recited after Kaddish. In their views, Kaddish, like other responses in Davening is not considered a Hefsek.
In their view, we cannot compare this to the Halacha of Davening in a Beis Avel. In the case of one who Davens in a Beis Avel, since they were exempt from Tachanun at the point where Tachanun would have been recited, they remain exempt afterwards. In the case where Tachanun was forgotten and the Chazzan said Kaddish, they were obligated at the time to say Tachanun and this obligation never went away[21].
According to this view that Tachanun should still be said, it should be said immediately after the Kaddish. After saying Tachanun, Kaddish is not recited a second time. In Shacharis one would proceed straight into Ashrei and in Mincha one would go straight to Aleinu.
If it was a day of Leining and the Sefer Torah had already been removed before one realised that Tachanun should have been said, Tachanun should be recited after the Leining is completed.
Recorded that one time in 770, the Chazzan forgot to recite Tachanun and Mincha and recited the Kaddish Tiskabel. The Rbbe directed the Minyan to say Tachanun, but not to repeat the Kaddish[22].
What if one only remembered later?
The Poskim only discuss where one realised while they were still in Davening, such as while saying or after saying Kaddish. Seemingly the same would apply if one was still in Davening and perhaps still in Shule after finishing Davening.
If one had left Shule, it would seem that one would not say Tachanun any longer, even according to the stricter opinion. This would especially be so if one had already started a new activity.
Even though reciting Tachanun is only a custom, one should not avoid reciting Tachanun where there is no reason to do so.
[1] Levush 132:1
[2] Talmidei Rashba, Orchos Chaim quoting Geonim. Shulchan Aruch Orach Chaim 131:1, Levush
[3] Like Elokai Netzor
[4] Shulchan Aruch Harav 131:1
[5] Shulchan Aruch Orach Chaim 131:1
[6] A Reshus. Rav Natrunai Gaon quoted in Tur. According to Kabbalah, Tachanun is an obligation
[7] Bava Metzia 59
[8] Quoted in the Beis Yosef and in Ta”z 131:1
[9] Orchos Chaim quoted in Beis Yosef. Levush, Kaf Hachaim 131:1.
[10] Elya Rabba 131:1. Olas Tamid
[11] Kitzur Shulchan Aruch 22:1
[12] Elya Rabba 131:1
[13] Shaarei Teshuva,
[14] Kaf Hachaim 131:2
[15] This is different to interruptions that are for Davening itself
[16] Magen Avraham 131:1
[17] Kaf Hachaim 131:4
[18] Magen Avraham 131:1. See Rambam 5:14
[19] Ta”z 131:10
[20] Shulchan Aruch Harav 131:5
[21] See Teshuvos Lehoros Nasan
[22] The Rebbe said that if the Chazzan wanted to, a half Kaddish could be said.